			    TRAVELLER Digest 275

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: TRAVELLER digest 274	by rhwalsh@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Robert H. Walsh)
  2) Sensor data still more questions	by J.Dixon@massey.ac.nz
  3) FFS question	by "Joshua Holmstrom (Freeman)" <jholmstr@violin.aix.calpoly.edu>
  4) Re: TRAVELLER digest 274	by Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
  5) Re: FF&S design issues: "real: drives	by Caffein Achiever! <fok@chaph.usc.edu>
  6) Regina's Gas Giant	by James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
  7) RE: Sneaks & Geeks, And those wacky K'Kree	by Neil Taylor <neil@owl.uk.gdscorp.com>
  8) RE: FF&S design issues: "real" drives	by Neil Taylor <neil@owl.uk.gdscorp.com>
  9) Santa Claus and Stuff	by Mark Clark <markc@brahms.udel.edu>
 10) FF&S design issues: "real" drives  	by Tommy Grav <tommyg@ifi.uio.no>
 11) RE: TRAVELLER digest 274	by E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
 12) Collapsing Capella	by Lahtinen Antti Jussi <al76188@cs.tut.fi>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 19:05:11 -0500 (CDT)
From: rhwalsh@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu (Robert H. Walsh)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 274
Message-ID: <9505040005.AA108731@rs6000.cmp.ilstu.edu>

Hello All, this is my first post to the mailing list, I have been playing
Traveller since reading the review in Dragon #18, I was also part of the
Winning Team at the First Official Traveller Tournament[Winterwars in '80]
I am not real happy with the idea of switching Traveller to the T2K system
but, everyone makes mistakes.
I have some questions for people in general:

1). Whatever became of "Project Longbow" was it Psi Based, or more like a
FTL System or "HPG" ala Battletech.
2). What happened to Terra when the Virus Hit?
3). Is HIWG still in Existance, and if not are the Archives available
anywhere
4). Has anyone done work with Star Hero/Champions Converted to Traveller or
Vice Versa?

Thanks in advance:
Robert K. Walsh
Captain Delta Troop, 3rd SCT, 1313TH Lift Cavalry Regiment

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 May 95 13:03:03 +1200
From: J.Dixon@massey.ac.nz
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Sensor data still more questions
Message-ID: <199505040104.VAA10033@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

><J.Dixon@massey.ac.nz> wrote:
>
>>My roleplaying group are interested in knowing exactly what is the
>>information being collected by the EMS sensors, and other sensor types.
>>This would help us to understand what can and can't be determined about
>>other starships in encounters.  Why aren't starships fitted with telescopes
>>that have advanced image enhancement so once an object is located an
>>attempt can be made to view it?

Neil Taylor (neil@uk.gdscorp.com) wrote:
>they are, but... you try to detect the other starship at extreme range, and
when 
>at those limits you cannot resolve further detail.  Of course, as it gets
closer 
>you can get decent images.
>
>anything that stands out from the background of stars:
>
>light - as IR from hot drive exhausts,
>	as radio from electrics
>	as visible light reflected, or more likely by occulting background stars
>neutrinos etc from fusion reactors (in MT, gravitic radiation) an electronic

>camera and photomultiplier can automatically scan for stars being 
>occulted, which is hard to avoid even if you switch off drives and other 
>sources... from the pattern of occultations and your own motion, you can
work 
>out where the opponent ought to be and how they seem to be moving, but if
all 
>you have is a set of shadows in front of stars, its pretty hard to build up
an 
>image of the offender!
>To really hide a starship, you need to set a course similar to in-system 
>asteroids, set the ship slowly tumbling and stop accelerating; otherwise
you'll 
>stand out from the other lumps even with the drives off.
>

STEVEN M BONNEVILLE (bonn0015@flipper.itlabs.umn.edu) wrote:

>
>Check out page 315 of the TNE rule book.  Passive EMS includes "computer
>image enhancement" of the object, and while they don't say so very
>clearly, I believe that optical wavelengths are included.  When you
>consider that even the little 30 Mm PEMS on the Far Trader has a 3.5 
>meter effective lens diameter (see FF&S), these sensors have incredible
>resolving power, like a spy satellite.  If the ship is close enough,
>and your PEMS effective lens array big enough, you might be able to read 
>the name of the closing ship off the hull!  Of course, jitter will be
>a problem, but that's what computers are for. 
>
>As for the "other" listings, gravitic densitometers can be used to map
>geological variations in density, neutrino sensors are useful in the
>study of stars, and neural activity sensors can detect sentient life
>forms, but only at short ranges.
>
Thanks for the replies guys I re-read the basic rule book about sensors 
but I still have questions and the logic behind how they are work.

When you play Brillant Lances and several objects are detected they are 
considered to be only blobs until a sensor lock is achieved after which
everything is known about the object.  This seems a bit strange to me as
a straight radar image contains a lot of information just picking up the
object like how far away it is, the size of the object, the velocity, 
direction etc.  More than enough information to allow a good guess that 
the object is a ship, missile, bouy, a rock etc.

I have no problem accepting that in order to hit an object its location 
needs to be known very precisely hence the need for a sensor lock but not
to make a general identification of what that object is.

Also considering the technological improvements used in the Traveller 
universe in other areas sensor technology seems pretty pathetic.

Jonathan Dixon 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 18:45:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Joshua Holmstrom (Freeman)" <jholmstr@violin.aix.calpoly.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: FFS question
Message-ID:
<Pine.A32.3.91.950503184304.174396B-100000@violin.aix.calpoly.edu>

OK, I'm trying to design an ARL(Assault Rocket Launcher) using FFS, the 
problem is, I'm not sure what to design them as, since ARL's arn't 
mentioned. Any clues as what to design them as? Grenade launchers? 
Recoilless rifles? Tac missile launchers? :) 

-Josh 

------------------------------

Date: 03 May 1995 23:12:10 GMT
From: Rob_Prior@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca (Rob Prior)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 274
Message-ID: <927125403.111136851@nynet.nybe.north-york.on.ca>

>Concering the K'Kree eating fallen Ithklur during the K'Kree/Hiver war:

<snip>

>1/ As I recall (and I could be wrong, not having the module with me at
>work), the K'Kree started to eat Ithklur when the Ithklur began eating
>K'Kree, sort of as a "retaliation".  For my conception of the K'Kree, this
>would be a wholly unthinkable motivation, mostly because historically this
>sort of Barbarism was met with a wholesale genocide of the offending party
>by the K'Kree.

For the K'kree government, possibly, but what about isolated K'kree herds? 
Among the many things I've learned from reading history is that nothing seems
to be unthinkable, especially in wartime.  

>2/ Unless I've missed an episode of Nova, most Earth herbivors *aren't*
>sentient, star-faring species with stable, complex cultures spanning
>hundreds of light-years and the social and technological evolution that
>implies.  I can imagine *some* modern K'Kree turning to meat to sustain
>themselves under extreme crisis conditions, like those faced by the Donner
>party.  However, while this might work for an isolated individual forced to
>keep himself alive, it doesn't seem "logical" for an intact K'Kree family or
>military unit.  There would be too much peer reinforcement to keep them from
>actually "doing the deed" alone.

You haven't missed Nova :-)  

However, I think you are not giving the K'kree credit for individuality. 
Even stable cultures exhibit local variation, and the behaviour of groups can
drift as fast as that of individuals.  Just look at the 'groupthink' during,
for example, the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Peer reinforcement can be a positive
feedback mechanism as well as a stabilizing force.

What I am trying to get at is that avoidance of meat is not necessarily a
biological imperative, and anyway part of being sentient is being able to
overrule an instinct with reasoning.  Eating meat is regarded as perverted by
the vast majority of K'kree in the mainstream of society.  So are many crimes
on Earth that keep cropping up (no pun intended).  Humans under pressure do a
lot of really strange things; why should K'kree be different?

Think of the K'kree as being stereotypical Bible-belt fundamentalists,
suddenly discovering a functional community of communists espousing free love
and homosexuality who continue to attend Bible class.  A holy war to wipe out
the heretics?  You bet!  

Note: the above is an analogy.  Personally, I view the dietary habits of the
K'kree as being more religious or philosophical than biological.  After all,
our evolutionary ancestors ate fruit, grubs and roots, but most modern humans
couldn't stomach a meal like that.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 May 95 22:36:47 PDT
From: Caffein Achiever! <fok@chaph.usc.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: FF&S design issues: "real: drives
Message-ID: <CMM.0.90.4.799565807.fok@castor.usc.edu>


> Date: Wed, 3 May 1995 17:27:15 +0100 (BST)
> From: Arthur Green <ARTHUR@cclana.ucd.ie>
> To: traveller@MPGN.COM
> Subject: FF&S design issues: "real" drives
> Message-ID: <2B82E5B176D@cclana.ucd.ie>
> 
> Greetings -
> 
> I've been doing some work trying to design starships with FF&S. As a 
> result of reading _The Moat Around Murcheson's Eye_, I've decided to 
> throw out all the fancy anti-grav technology in FF&S and see what 
> kind of inter- and intra-stellar transportation I end up with.
> 
> The objective is to avoid using grav technology (so no inertial 
> compensators, no contra-grav lifters, no gravitic focussing for 
> lasers). 

BRAVO!!! Another potential Hard SF convert!  :))

> The first ship type I set out to design was a 30-ton lander,
> specifically short-range craft for getting from orbit to ground and
> back. The craft is supposed to be relatively environmentally
> friendly, so it doesn't use serious radiation-emitting drives. For
> this reason I think I want ot avoid using HEPlaR drives for the
> lander. Using an AZHRAE combination air-breathing jet/ramjet/rocket,
> I've found that thrust and fuel consumption are such that it can't
> carry enough fuel to do anything useful. 

The performance of many of the drives in FF&S are an engineer's dream.
What I've found from my fiddling w/FF&S (many months ago...) that
designing a surface to orbit transport this way requires more
iteration then you would a starship.  However I vaguely recall makeing
some "house rules" mod in my system to compensate for this, can recall
it but I can dig for it if you're interested.

> My questions are as follows:
 
>   1. Has anyone tried fiddling with the thrust and fuel consumption 
>      figures for any of the drives in FF&S? I recall a lot of that 
>      went on in MT.

I think I have some things in this regard.  I'll post them after I get
done with Finals!   =8O

>   2. In terms of radiation and general exhaust problems, what are the
>      differences between HEPlaR and a fusion rocket? As far as I can 
>      see, they both spew hot plasma out the back, yet no-one seems to 
>      object to HEPlaR drives.

In the Traveller Realm the HEPlaR reads like it's suppose to operate
as a heat exchanger, thus without the problems of induced radiation.
However, from a Hard SF point the performance of both engines with
indicate presence of thermal ions in the exhaust...no too "Green" as
some will say.

Some of the designs I've done involves using a methane powered
reaction rocket (quaint ain't it?) but it's the easiest way to achieve
the required mass fraction to reach orbit with out making your lander
the size of Queen Mary.

As I mentioned previously, let me know if you're interested in any of
this stuff and I can post them after my Finals...sigh. :(



==========================================================================
Edward Fok			 | Ten Cash Drain of Product Development:
University of Southern California| #2 - Disregard for the Voice of the
 EE-Electrophysics Department	 |      Customer




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 May 95 22:44:59 PDT
From: James Kundert <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Regina's Gas Giant
Message-ID: <9505040544.AA01989@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca> asks:

>Can someone give me the name of the gas giant that Regina orbit's?
>Any other info on the Regina System would be appreciated.

 From the CT Book 6 - Scouts:

 Primary   Lusor F7-V (w/ DM companion in close orbit)
  0         Clement
  1         Ausun
  2         Burgund (small GG)
  - 3        Cent
  - 7        Thermidor
  3         Olybrius
  - 25       Alise
 *4         Assiniboia (large GG)
  - 3        Redes
  - 6        Printemps
  - 7        Brumaire
  - 30       Harcourt
  - 55       Regina

 Companion Darida M6-V (at 5000 AU from Lusor)
 *0         Augur
  1         Kirunda
  - 8        Irkirka
  - 11       Arkurer
  - 13       Irgurkar
  2         Elazair (small GG)
  - 3        Lashir
  - 8        Diuur Imar
  - 9        Shamardae
  - 20       Arapan
  - 50       Edaku
  - 125      Gagamshir


 I have neglected to enter all the UWPs due to its being a time consuming
and tiresome task that GDW will possibly overwrite soon anyway.
The asterisks indicate habitable zones for the two stars (a dubious
label when applied to Augur). Of Assiniboia's moons, Redes and Brumaire
are (in addition to Regina) fairly habitable, while Printemps and Harcourt
have atmospheres too thin to be comfortable. Most of the Lusor system is
populated to some extent, while the Darida system is nearly deserted.
 Regina's system _may_ have gotten more recent treatment by DGP, but I
found this one first...



James Kundert <j.kundert@genie.geis.com>
              <james@dumbcat.sf.ca.us>

There was a young lady named Bright,
Whose speed was much faster, much faster than Light.
She departed one day in a relative way,
And returned on the previous Night.
   --Albert & the Heart of Gold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 07:55:57 EDT
From: Neil Taylor <neil@owl.uk.gdscorp.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Sneaks & Geeks, And those wacky K'Kree
Message-ID: <0098FD7C.F4612940.56@arc.uk.gdscorp.com>

djohnson@frame.com (Dane Johnson) writes about Hiver devils for K'kree:

>If the K'Kree have a Devil, it has six legs.

It would have had 6 legs anyway - the K'kree are hexapods too, they just
adapted 
1 pair into arms...
I think what you really mean to say is:

	If the K'Kree have a Devil, it has six *tentancles*


--------------------------------------------------+
-- Neil Taylor              neil@uk.gdscorp.com --|
-- Graphic Data Systems Ltd,                    --| 
-- Wellington House, East Rd, Cambridge CB1 1BH --|
--------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 08:08:23 EDT
From: Neil Taylor <neil@owl.uk.gdscorp.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: FF&S design issues: "real" drives
Message-ID: <0098FD7E.B0B9E860.24@arc.uk.gdscorp.com>

Arthur Green <ARTHUR@cclana.ucd.ie> writes:

>The objective is to avoid using grav technology (so no inertial 
>compensators, no contra-grav lifters, no gravitic focussing for 
>lasers). 
>Using an AZHRAE combination air-breathing jet/ramjet/rocket,
>I've found that thrust and fuel consumption are such that it can't
>carry enough fuel to do anything useful. 
>
>My questions are as follows:
>
>  1. Has anyone tried fiddling with the thrust and fuel consumption 
>     figures for any of the drives in FF&S? I recall a lot of that 
>     went on in MT.

have you tried using the T2300 space rules?  They were near future and used 
magneto-hydro-dynamic turbines (burnign l-ox and l-hyd) for most power 
generation, and got intertial thrust for landers by flooding the turbines
with 
excess fuel and venting the flame.
They tried quite hard to use realistic maths for thrust etc., so that'd be a 
good place to start.
As plenty of people have commented its ****** difficult to build 1990's tech 
vehicles with FFS (or MTrav for that matter).

>  2. In terms of radiation and general exhaust problems, what are the
>     differences between HEPlaR and a fusion rocket? As far as I can 
>     see, they both spew hot plasma out the back, yet no-one seems to 
>     object to HEPlaR drives.

I suppose the Fusion rocket will have additional radioactive fusion
by-products 
in its exhaust, whereas the HELPAR "only" dumps UV, XUV and some XRays from
the 
plasma (it's *hot*, and highly ionised atoms radiate as they recombine 
electrically)

the worst problem, regardless of radiation, is the power levels.  I keep
seeing 
Grav bikes and such using 100kW to 2MW - think about dumping that hlot as
waste 
heat!  Trav anti-grav uses so much power that it alone is anti-social,
without 
beginning to consider the megawattage of Hot Plasma!

Think of a HELPAR drive as like a plasma cutting-torch and you'll get the 
picture.


--------------------------------------------------+
-- Neil Taylor              neil@uk.gdscorp.com --|
-- Graphic Data Systems Ltd,                    --| 
-- Wellington House, East Rd, Cambridge CB1 1BH --|
--------------------------------------------------+

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 07:38:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mark Clark <markc@brahms.udel.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Santa Claus and Stuff
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950504073426.19041A-100000@brahms.udel.edu>

Yeah, I noticed the Santa Claus thing - it was just the most offensive 
part of a series of offensive jokes.  Can you say "Stupid?"

As to the K'Kree eating Ithulker, I find this so at odds with previous 
descriptions of K'Kree (they destroyed a whole planet for using meat 
_sauces_, for God's sake!), that I have just chosen to ignore this as a typo.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 18:47:08 +0200
From: Tommy Grav <tommyg@ifi.uio.no>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: FF&S design issues: "real" drives  
Message-ID: <199505041647.26451.mimir.ifi.uio.no@ifi.uio.no>


If you are thinking about the low tech thrusters I think
that they are good enough. If you consider the Shuttle it
need large fueltanks just to get it into orbit. Low tech
fuels are not efficent if you consider the weight and 
volume, but they are all we have at the moment.

Tommy Grav

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 04 May 1995 19:26:57 EDT
From: E.Watters@Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: TRAVELLER digest 274
Message-ID: <0098FDDD.7C81C9A0.392@v2.qub.ac.uk>

In reply to Arthur Greens query in TML Digest 274:-

>From: Arthur Green <ARTHUR@cclana.ucd.ie>


 > 2. In terms of radiation and general exhaust problems, what are the
 >    differences between HEPlaR and a fusion rocket? As far as I can 
 >    see, they both spew hot plasma out the back, yet no-one seems to 
 >    object to HEPlaR drives.


Havent got the book with me ,but I think the difference between HEPlaR and 
fusion rockets is that the HEPlaR uses a shielded fusion reactor to heat
plasma which is passed through it and exhausted to provide thrust. A fusion
drive is just a fusion reactor, open at one end, that exhausts plasma
heated by fusion. As the reactor is open at one end, there is no shielding 
at that end, and all the nasty radiations that are produced in the fusion
reaction are free to propagate outwards.

Hope this answers your question. And now a plug.
My local roleplaying club, the Queen's University of Belfast Dragonslayers
is holding their second convention - Q-Con II from the 23 to 25 June 95. I'll
be running TNE, and other Science-Fiction games will be available, such as 
SLA industries, Star Trek (Fasa), Battletech, and the highly successful 
Star Trek Megagame (Low level wargame W/kit models). Also running are CoC
Command Decision, Various WW games, and AD+D. So if you happen to be in the 
vicinity of Belfast (UK and ROI list members this means YOU) call in,
we promise a good time, or a demonstration of Hari-Kiri by committee members.
Info can be found on our www page Http://boris.qub.ac.uk/ds/, or e-mail
Stephen Rushe at u9348913@qub.ac.uk for info on subscribing.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 21:50:25 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Lahtinen Antti Jussi <al76188@cs.tut.fi>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Collapsing Capella
Message-ID: <199505041850.VAA15894@kaarne.cs.tut.fi>

Michael Bailey wrote:

> 1/ Having wrapped my brain around FF&S for a few weeks now, I'm going to
> take a break and get around to something I've been meaning to do for a
while
> - collapse subsectors N and O (Capella and Gemini) of the Solomani Rim.

	I am currently running a TNE campaign centered around Vyborg in
	Capella subsector, but I haven't collapsed all systems yet. The
	campaign is very old (we started with CT rules long time ago), and
	I have "World Builder" stats for most campaign-relevant planets.

	I am trying to find the "World Tamer" somewhere so that I could
	check if the old "World Builder" stats are still usable.
	(Up here north it takes about 2-8 months before a new game book
	appears in shops.)

	In my campaign, Vyborg survived the collapse almost untouched
	(due to the actions of the PCs), but all other places were hit
	badly. One of the worst case was a high-population waterplanet,
	with high-dense atmosphere (I think the place was called Vantage).
	All population lived in Grav-suspended cities because the
	atmosphere was too thick in sea level.
	When the Virus came, all the cities went down in a single night,
	and the planet became a huge boneyard.

-- 
        Antti Lahtinen    :     Justice is Only a Wish of a Weak
        al76188@cs.tut.fi :


------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 275
***************************
